The Story Hints From Legion That No One Noticed: The “Maw” Of Souls

If you have been  following me for a long time I’m sure you are aware that I have been speculating about the direct connections between Death and The Void and claiming they are not actually enemies at all.

Well, today we will take a look back at Legion, The Maw Of Souls dungeon and the second boss of it -Harbaron- in particular. Hopefully I will keep this article short.

What was the actual purpose of the maw of souls?

First, let us  remember what The Maw Of Souls actually stands for:

“Amidst fog and mist, the cursed Vrykul await the Naglfar, a fearsome ship formed from sinew and bone, which comes to deliver these poor souls to Helheim, and the clutches of Helya.”

And Nagifar sails on a stormy, chaotic sea on its way to Helheim. So, when we defeat Ymiron, what does he say?

“Harbaron! Cast their souls into the tides!”

The tide… If you’ve played Battle For Azeroth, I’m sure you have realized the tide and the ocean were also associated with The Void and the darkest depths. Where as the people of Stormsong Valley believed, the darkest creatures awaits for them, turned out those creatures were actually Faceless Ones, the A’qir. So, in the culture of Kul’tirans, the depths should be feared while respected. Just like in our “culture” in real world in some way, the Cthulhu Mythos.

Moving on, we came across the second boss of the instance: Harbaron.

Harbaron was the ferryman of souls and the second boss of the instance. It’s said that his connection with Helya is unclear “but when the breeze catches Harbaron’s cloak, an expanse of shimmering stars unfolds beneath.”

So, what if Harbaron was also a Constellar?

Xal’atath had something to say about him as well:

It was thought his kind was incorruptible. A lesson from my brothers I suppose.”

So, Yogg-Saron once tried to corrupt Algalon himself?If you remember Algalon was the first Constellar we encountered in the lore. What are they?:

The constellar are a race of mysterious celestial beings who resemble large humanoid-shaped constellations. During the early ages of the universe, when the titan Pantheon brought order to countless worlds throughout the cosmos, the titan leader Aman’Thul called upon the constellar to observe the many worlds ordered by the Pantheon. The constellar stayed vigilant for any signs of instability, and, when necessary, initiated a fail-safe procedure to scour a planet of life and reset its evolutionary process.”

From Wowpedia

So a Constellar, Harbaron once worked with Helya for reasons unknown. And he says this during the boss battle:

“The flesh burdens the soul. A nuisance that must be flayed from your bones!

Another implication to flesh being actually a burden, a weakness. While Il’gynoth calls it “a gift of flesh” because becoming mortals granted us free will, it also weakened us a lot.

When we get into Helheim:

Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far.”

What is this “truth” she constantly referred to during Legion? Maybe the “truth” has been hidden in the sea, the depths? Or they are just metaphors? 

Well, another quote from our mysterious ferryman of souls:

Life… death… I am but one ripple in the eternal ebb and flow…”


Now it is I who must pay… the blood price!

The eternal ebb and flow, Fatescribe Roh-Kalo had a similar line in Sanctum Of Domination:

Eternity devours itself!

The represantation of Ouroboros from the map of the nameless Broker. The Cosmic Chart in the eyes of Death and most likely The First Ones. Ah, we will talk about them soon aswell.

So, this guy Harbaron knew about this cycle as well. And he was a debt collector, more specificly, blood/soul depth collector. And he was wielding a Cosmic Scythe.

Regardless, the connections between Helya, Odyn, Yogg-Saron thus the connections between Death and The Void are undeniable.

But of course, content creators still rely upon the idea of “Death and Void are enemies! No other way at all” thing just because of a single line back in Three Sisters, ridiculous.

So, why no one attracted attention to this details and this guy in particular so far? Well, because at the time of Legion we had almost zero knowledge about the Shadowlands and how it works. But as you can see, Blizzard put breadcrumbs back in Legion for the entire Shadowlands arc. Just like how N’zoth warned us about the actual plot about Shadowlands through the entire Battle For Azeroth…

So, the next time when someone say ” Blizzard’s lore is inconsistent! Retcons everywhere! They wrote Shadowlands lore in a month!” kindly send them this article… Because in truth, Legion, Battle For Azeroth and Shadowlands is a single story arc.

Also we still do not know about Loken’s last words to Odyn. It seems when we learn the truth about the entire Helya-Odyn arc, the Pandora’s box will open…

Just like how “All eyes shall be opened.”

27 thoughts on “The Story Hints From Legion That No One Noticed: The “Maw” Of Souls

  1. Naglfar, a fearsome ship formed from sinew and bone” I immediately thought of Maldraxxus…:O

    My crazy theory, as I have told you before, that Golganneth made Helheim…Maybe as a favor for Odin to punish his people for whatever may arise. What if Harbaron is actually a Titan watcher or keeper of the Zone? :O We know that Constellars and Titans have close genetical traits…different offshoot of the same tree?

    “Helya and her cult are strong here. So close to the truth, yet so far.” Again, my theory is that Xal is talking about how Helheim is indeed a realm of the Shadowlands but its not true, while technically it is, Shadowlands is supposed to be a freeing experience…where free will reigns free…not purpose. Just like Helheim as well as the Shadowlands we see today, Everyone has a purpose and a duty to complete. Just as the Titans would approve of: Absolute Order.

    “So, this guy Harbaron knew about this cycle as well. And he was a debt collector, more specificly, blood/soul depth collector. And he was wielding a Cosmic Scythe.”

    Try this on for size:
    Blood/Soul…Life Essence/Death Essence…Anima is also that essence of Death. Point being? Could Harbaron be a Broker? :O

    I think Death and Void are aligned for now…only because Life, Light, and Order have teamed up. I think Disorder was actually neutral. Disorder is allowed to exist and lumped up with the Void and Death b/c Life is chaotic and unpredictable…just like Disorder. Disorder is really irrelevant now until Sargares gets out…so unless Zovaal’s plan includes jail breaking Mr. S, Disorder will not be there to cause trouble.

    Don’t forget that Death is still chained up, “Then they will see Death was never meant to be chained.”

    And every single Old God we have ever seen was chained up and imprisoned…


    1. I’m sure Nagifar is somewhat aligned with The Maw actually, but if I align it with your theory aboht Golganneth was the one who created Helheim, it would go like that:

      At this point we do not know the origins of Helheim, It is most likely a sub-realm of The Maw rather than being an actual part of the Shadowlands. So, if Golganneth was the one who created Helheim to punish Odyn’s Valkyr, it would make sense. May be The Primus helped the construction of the ship and they put Harbaron (I’m %100 sure he is a Constaller by the way) to take care the souls abord into Helheim.

      But in this sense, Helheim was actually created by The Primus, what would be the deal between Harbaron and Helya?

      Yes, his duty was probably about collecting Anima through flesh and blood.

      Yes, ı agree Death and Void are aligned and working together. That was what I have been speculating for a long time and it also fits one of our core theories about The First Ones. Against Order-Life-Light who have created this veil, this prison around us. Though the First Ones trying to manipulate The Naaru to manifest inside our realms.

      Oh, chains and Old Gods? Chained by domination, gotta think about that.

      Also, The First Ones may also directly tied with Order and Light, talk about that soon.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I am not saying its not part of the Maw…but an encapsulated realm of the Maw.

        The Maw is still mysterious as hell or rather Oribos. Every region, including Korthia, has a background storyline that explains why it exists…mainly the denizens in those regions. The Maw is a complete mystery. We see “first one” portals…and everything seems to be destroyed in what appears to be a cataclysmic event…like a Sundering of sorts. Is the Maw the end result of complete near starvation of Anima? Or was this due to the internal civil war that occurred when the original Arbiter decided to seek forbidden knowledge of the original sigils? My speculation is that the sigils were given to the EOs by the Titans…not the First Ones. (First Ones exist or existed along with what Steve Deusar called the “Clockmaker”…we just probably won’t ever see them as that would probably be the end of the MMO..imo…yet that would not disprove your grand theory of the First Ones being or becoming Void Lords)

        Is Helya a titan keeper while Odyn is the Titan watcher? Are we to assume that Titan creations would have the same knowledge of the Titans themselves? I did some research in my post that it appears that Titans and Constellars are either the same race varied in their development meaning that Constellars will become Titans as we have seen each Titan had a Constellar form present in the Argus raid when they arrive at the Pantheon or they are of the same originals different offshoots…like cousins or something.

        I think that the forces of Order are the ones who chained up death…The “Purpose” or duty proves this idea. I think the Brokers could created by the Titans to spy on everyone and everything…their verbial “Eyes and Ears” of the Titans. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place having to decide if keeping Sargeras imprisoned (allowing Shadowlands to fall) or intervening with our meddlings in the Shadowlands (allowing Sargeras to escape to save their precious design/purpose)?

        Liked by 1 person

  2. I believe The Maw was the centre of The Shadowlands where Zovaal stands and judge souls. So thoe ruins on the background always took my attention. And that First One portal standing in the Maw was another evidence we suggested for our theory. I don’t think the sigils were given by The Titans if they are NOT the First Ones after all. Because, The Titans are in the same “tier” of power in the Cosmic Chart so they cant give their so called brethren a power beyond them. Also, probably due to the abuse of Anima The Eternal Ones are stronger.

    Actually, the terms “Titan Watchers” and “Keepers” were combined into just “Titan Keepers” in Chronicles so, Helya was another Titan Keeper just like Freya or Thorim. Odyn had control over her because he was the kinda prime Titan Keeper. I don’t think The Titans would share their knowledge about the Shadodwlands with their servants, they would find them unworthy.

    As I know Constellars are a different race on their own but they are probably originated from “Order” as well. Titans are originated from World Souls and its described they had a “constellar form” before birth.
    Its likely they are cousins or similar, yeah.

    Yes, I also think Order chained up Death but teamed up with Life, Light and The Eternal Ones. As I guess The Primus was the one who came up with the idea of “Domination Magic” and used it to chain down death, imprison The First Ones and Titans chained down The Old Gods.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I commented on an Old post on Reddit but since that is tied in with your latest post here and it is about the FIRST ONES, I would say this:

    “So close to the truth yet so far!”

    “All eyes will be opened, do not let yours be closed!!”, “Listen. Listen. Listen. LISTEN, you were right to doubt them!!!”

    Liked by 1 person

  4. What if Zovaal needed the 5 sigils to make his own ultimate version of Frostmourne?
    Frost Sigil: The sigil of the Winter queen, when snow comes the land decays and rots in preparation for Spring.
    Unholy Sigil: The sigil of the Primus, Death is an unrelenting, toxic, and contagious force capable of Destroying all.
    Blood Sigil: The Sigil of the Sire Denathrius, with the extraction of blood a soul becomes pure, complacent, obedient. With the power of blood within you you are unstoppable and godlike.
    Sigil of Runic power: Sigil from Kyrestia Firstborne, allows the user to access the powerful ancient runic magic.(The blue aura from Death Knight’s eyes is powerful ARCANE ENERGY.)
    Sigil of DEATH: Sigil from Zovaal, grants the wearer the ability to access DEATH magic

    And this frostmourne would be the key to open the way…


    1. The better question should be why did Sargeras wanted to create a Dark Pantheon? Why did he want to resurrect the Order pantheon titan souls into the Dark titans? Why was Argus called the Death Titan by Sargeras? What was Sargeras looking for?

      Sargeras claimed Azeroth was his final Prize,
      N’zoth claimed Azeroth is the True Prize,
      Zovaal claims Azeroth was his promised Prize.

      Except for N’zoth, both Sargeras and Zovaal wanted the essence/ Sigils of their fellow pantheon members to access something! Since Sargeras along with the Titans were pantheon of order. He had to mimic the Death Pantheon aka the Dark Pantheon so he claim what ever is inside the world. Why is Azeroth connected to the Death/ Dark Pantheon? What is the Foundation/ corner stone of Death?

      If you really want to know the ending of Shadowlands, it is already in game. Azeroth warned us in fact! She foretold patch 7.3 ending, patch 8.3 ending and also patch 9.3 ending.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Thank you for great comments you both! This is why I like writing articles, for this brainstorming.

        So, to answer you both:

        I agree of an idea for a “Zovaal-sized Frostmourne” for him to use. Thsi way, they would implicate him being the real Lich King even more, coupled with his armor. I also liked your analysis for each Covenant, they are just like how I see them.

        But to way to where? I mean, if the way was supposed to the way into Zereth Mortis after all, it has been opened. This lead me to the question: What knowledge Zovaal actually tore from Roh-Kalo’s mind? He captured him AFTER he started to sought the Covenant sigils so he was supposed to know about Zereth Morthis and how to open the portal into there and stuff.

        So, I actually agree with the idea of “Azeroth being at the center of everything” as well because it also fits my theories. I believe the reason why Sargeras wanted to create his own Dark Pantheon was to pursue his goals even further. To claim Azeroth’s World Soul and as you said to “claim” it, not to kill it.

        And to be honest, I won’t be surprised if we ended up in Azeroth for our final raid during 9.3. I believe the “key” Zovaal seeks to reset the creation is inside The Sepulcher, locked away in Zereth Mortis.But may be the “machine” to trigger it hidden Azeroth? That’s entirely possible because during the Tazavesh introductary scenario, we have actually learned that there is something about The First Ones is hidden Azeroth.

        For the Frostmourne theory again,can we actually imagine it as Infinity Gauntlet then? Five sigils, combined into an ultimate weapon for our “version” of Thanos?

        Liked by 1 person

  5. While I agree that Shadowlands breadcrumbs were sowed back in Legion and then it continued in BFA, the mention of the first ones was sowed far far back. The first instance in game in a way was from the Puzzle Box of Yogg saron.

    Also, fate and time are interconnected. Azeroth is the Prison/ Prism of Fate. What did Nozdormu saw as the ending of the main timeline and embraced the void, turning into Murozond and wanting to bring the timeline of the Twilight of all existence, to be consumed by the void? and claimed that it will be a blessing that we may not comprehend. How did Amanthul play a part in this? The answers to these questions may reveal you small glimpse into the grand scheme of things.

    Adding up to what Danuser told about Shadowlands being the pivotal expansion of the great meta arc of all wow expansions, if you didn’t realize, just like the first ones being sowed all the way back, the first instance of the Nathrezim being the unseen ones comes from the book that was released before WOTLK went live. Yogg saron did warn all of us that we were all pawns of forces UNSEEN! The cunning ones kneel before 6 but they serve only 1 was only a continuation of that whisper!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Hmm, which whisper in particular was referring to The First Ones you think? I listened them a lot of times.

      I also believe Azeroth is at the center of everything and the idea of fate and time are connected. Consider it like that: Time can be manipulated, we saw it in WoW a lot of times. An now there is a boss named FateSCRIBE Roh-Kalo, using quotes like;

      “Fate unfolds! A thousand threads frayed and torn!” or
      “Threads of fate, pullled bare!”.

      So, considering what Zovaal and Sylvanas want to do is changing the current system, may be what they want is actually to break the bonds of fate? Just like how Medivh mentioned it back in Legion? May be not our afterlives, but even our lives have been “scribed” somewhere before our birth. And we have no chance to have a real choice during our lifetimes. Even how we would live is scripted so in the end, which Covenant of the Shadowlands we would go was even… pre determined?

      And yes, Yogg’s whisper:
      “You are a pawn of forces unseen” and Il’gynoth’s:

      “The cunning ones kneel before six masters” were great breadcrumbs. And I think you refer to the Ashbringer comics and the Balnazzar quote about Nathrezim and Death, right?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. If you find the connection between one of the whispers of Puzzle Box of Yogg saron and Fate scribe Roh-Kalo, the missing links that I am not explicit about!, you will understand why the whisper:

        “So close to the truth, yet so far” makes sense and in a way, it applies to you as well, esp. in this post. I would want you to experience the eye opening moment of the Old Gods and the Void yourself. The deduction makes it worthwhile and interesting. If I mention any of the missing links to the above, I would pretty much be giving you the potential possible identity of the First ones, which you in a way know already but you are not seeing it.

        The EMBRACE could be connected to it but I do not think that this will directly reveal the identity of the First ones.

        Anyway, I know I am very vague about this but let me give you a heads-up. Start with those various Prophetic pamphlets from Legion, maybe some of them will lead you to the connection. The crucial connecting link is also in Legion, a particular boss!

        Liked by 1 person

  6. First of all, welcome among us, oh dear Lore Magus!
    Welcome to our realm of madness and conspiracy! :>

    Thanks a lot for noticing our mad babbles and finding your way here to leave your comments.


    In light of what you imply, I have re-read the Prophetic Pamphlet:
    Which was just one of the pamphlets that were given out by the Validated Doomsayers after Argus appeared on the skies of Azeroth.


    An interesting note of detail that has to be given here should be the Hearthstone card with the same name:
    That arrived with the expansion “Whispers of the Old Gods” :>

    We know Hearthstone is not canon but refers some very interesting upcoming canon, like the return of N’Zoth in 8.2.

    Considering the notes here, I guess we can all say, these Doomsayers are agents of the Void, or members of the Twilight’s Hammer Cult.

    They were seemingly supporting Sargeras and Legion, but of course they weren’t.
    They support the Void.

    Check these quotes:

    “The Light has forsaken us!”

    and especially this:

    “The world will be shaped anew!”

    So, as we have somewhat “foreseen” in our “Exiled in the Void: The First Ones!” theory, let’s do a small linking:

    Doomsayers say “SARGERAS DID NOTHING WRONG” and “SARGERAS MUST SUCCEED IN HIS MISSION.” in the Prophetic Pamphlet.

    But, who had convinced Sargeras to start this “Burning Crusade”?

    The Nathrezim

    Also known as… The Dreadlords.

    Who are they loyal to?

    Sire Denathrius



    The big picture becomes even more clearer now:

    Everything was planned and set for the Void Lords; the return of the First Ones!

    To save them from exile and welcome them back into the Warcraft Cosmos:
    The Great Dark Beyond.

    Because, they have constructed the original design of the cosmos, they have put Zovaal in its center as their original Arbiter of Souls.

    After saving himself from imprisonment, it’s only natural for Zovaal to seek out the knowledge to save them and invite them back to their creation.

    Only problem is…

    As we have warned before…
    While Zovaal was jailed, too much time has passed and The First Ones that created him may not be the ones he has once known anymore!

    Now they are the Void Lords who infested the universe with their Old Gods to seek out a way to inject their influence and find their way back.

    What we have not mentioned in our original theory was the Elune part.

    We guess she may be the most influential First One over the cosmos, she used every possible tool in her arsenal to do so.

    She thought the Night Elves the Wisp technique and with that how to harness natural Anima powers to avoid Shadowlands and use Anima/Soul Magic for their benefit and relevant immortality.

    She totally has a very scary “Dark Side”.

    And most importantly, she is the creator of the Naaru.

    Which are beings, naturally when devoid of their Light, turn into Void Gods; which we guess is their actual true form. Naaru is just a shell that Elune has created for them to infiltrate the physical realm and cosmos. A more elegant method but in its aim, ironically not that very far from the Old Gods; whose clear link is known to the Void, but with Naaru, it can be very casually hidden.

    Considering everything happened related with Elune, Naaru and the Light they abused, we can almost be sure this is what’s happening in the bigger picture.

    I guess, that’s all I can summarize for now.
    But worry not, all our eyes are open and we WILL see!



    1. So, mighty Lore Magus, could Varimathras be the one you mentioned about that particular boss from Legion? So, lets take a look at a few of his quotes back in Antorus:

      “It matters not. You are blind to the true darkness closing in around you.”
      “It matters not. You are blind to the darkness in your midst.”

      So, considering the fact he was a servant of Sire, we can be sure that he meant Death, and the darkness of The Maw in particular. Because in my opinion, “Death’s true face” has been represented in The Maw, and as we speculated before, it has been hidden behind the veil. You know, the secret, dark realm we pass when we enter one of the Rift Porlals in Korthia, The Rift was one of the parts that has been hidden.

      “Tell me, when she seized your throne of hides and bones, was your allegiance forced? No… I’d wager you surrendered it willingly… or were convinced you did.”

      I was always curious about one thing since the first time I heard this, how did Varimathtas knew exactly how Sylvanas was appointed as a Warchief? After all, at that time he was in the hands of Shivarra and under torture. So, one or more characters in the Warchief’s room back in that room, was a Nathrezim? :>

      “Death… claims… us all.”

      So, considering he was actually originated from the Shadowlands, the realm of Death, this line much and much more sense.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Ask yourself if Varimathras is the connection between the following whisper and Fatescribe Roh-Kalo:

        “The stars sweep chill currents that make men shiver in the dark.”

        I have pretty much revealed a significant information.

        “Give in. Accept the embrace. Listen.
        Listen. Listen. Listen. LISTEN.”

        Aernath, with the above whispers, check again the Legion pamphlets in connection with Shadowlands, whose ending will bring the end of all things, everything we know will be remade.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I have just seen these replies, so, sorry for late reply to your replies, and here is my reply! ;b

        In another suggestion, I have taken another look at all of the pamphlets listed here: (linking again)

        I’ll say, “Damp” says “Emerald Sun” and we all assumed it referred to Argus (even Wowpedia linked it) but what if… It’s talking about another thing, that we know of, Emerald Dream and supposed Lifelands?

        After all, Winter Queen clearly implied her “Sister” Elune was her counterpart in the Life version of Ardenweald and later Primus himself clearly confirmed that. Also, we know Rift of Aln is located at a very strategic point that links various dimensions together and was open to abuse before.

        Anyway, other pamphlets that were noticeable and not just funnily conspiracy themed were:
        – Odorous, clearly confirms my previous Hearthstone canon connection, again even Wowpedia noted that too.
        – Stained, clearly confirms my previously stated Void link with Doomsayers, again also confirmed by Wowpedia too.
        – Demonic, obvious reference to Nathrezim.
        (Honorable mention to Scrawled, that one made me giggle again ;b)

        So, to conclude, yes, we also think Zovaal WILL succeed.

        And the Warcraft Universe will be remade.


        That course of story telling action may create some problems.

        There are a lot of story threads that have not been tied and they will remain unfinished if that happens.

        The story of Turalyon and Alleria’s somewhat “Dark Side” actions, combined with Yrel’s actions which were empowered and somewhat backed up by Light, Genn’s eventual snap and finally Tyrande’s Night Warrior experience, which vaguely has shown us these were all plotted by Elune.

        As well as this “Summer Queen” possibility, we still don’t know how can Elune be Winter Queen’s sister? Also, what is Winter Queen’s real name? Did Elune trick her into believing that? Or do we exaggerate Elune in our eyes since it’s a very old name in the lore? Is she just an “Upstart Goddess” like Xal once made fun of with her?

        Finally, the obvious Sylvanas conclusion that we expect to be fully revealed with her book and the Helya deal, Odin’s part in all this…

        Also, as mentioned before; Xal’atath and Azshara…

        Ends of these threads will all be burned and they will go to waste if Zovaal just goes Thanos and snaps his fingers to remake Warcraft Universe for a supposed WoW 2.0.

        On that part, I must step out of lore and dip my toe in the lands of Game Design a bit.

        I personally think Final Fantasy XIV’s “A Realm Reborn” like drastically dramatic move would be quite awesome and reigniting for World of Warcraft too. Even the announcement of it would create a huge impact on all of the gaming industry.

        But it has to be done very carefully and without burning off these threads but instead taking advantage from all these build ups.

        The best thing “A Realm Reborn” has brought to FFXIV is the built-in “Timewalking” they have. In that same logic, if it would be made for WoW, then we should be able to start as “Vanilla” players (in a new WoW engine and new graphic environment) then play through all of the story first hand, witness the ending, then move to next expansion and keep doing that until we reach then current endgame.

        One expansion worth levelling would still be enough to reach max level, but it would be up to the player to continue the storyline like a mostly single-player RPG game just to experience the story first hand (with some motivating achievements and rewards on the side, of course) and can be continued from where the player leaves off any time they want.

        That would be the perfect “story” option, Timewalking can still stay but it would just bring certain Dungeons and Mage Tower like events, but story would always be there to experience however you want and without removing anything from game, like how we lost Battle for Undercity, Wrathion’s original Legendary Questline, Atiesh Questline etc. those could all remain in game. Old versions of instances too, with a small subtext and why it was like that in the past etc. too. That way players would be able to experience old versions too and even have the option to farm old mounts, achievements, moggables on the side as an extra side activity with a wide variety of choices and without the Fear-Of-Missing-Out cruelty.

        Also, another 10.0 expectation of mine is the highly rumored “No-Faction” thing. As I have told in many of my tweets (latest:

        My idea about “No-Faction” comes with “War Mode 2.0” idea; as I have summarized at my tweet:
        For PvE there will be no factions, every player will be able to play together, interact and communicate all the time as long as they have their War Mode is off and they are at neutral or sanctuary zones.
        For PvP players will enable their War Mode and join the extremist Sub-Factions.

        For example,

        Horde may be led by Volrath and he may lead a faction that believes Horde can never work with Alliance and they will eventually turn on us.

        Likewise, on the Alliance side Danath Trollbane may lead the opposing faction and have similar thoughts.

        When you enable your War Mode and join these factions, for that time, both opposing faction’s War Mode enabled players AND the War Mode disabled players will be attackable by you.

        So no, opting out of War Mode will not make you exclude Open World PvP completely, but you will be able to help your Alliance guildmates when an attack occurs or you may get help from them when needed.

        This will be the the new setup in every zone, except Sanctuary zones and you will be able to opt in and out of extremism whenever you want again, in your faction capitol only and preferably with a logical cooldown so the system would not be abused.

        In conclusion, and stepping back at the lore part of all this, IF Zovaal snaps his fingers for a 10.0 like this, I’m all for it. If not, then I’d still play, of course but would feel a bit sad about how we had missed this perfect chance to do all these.

        Because as I said, if it’s done this way, then all of the past threads that have left untied and the future threads to be laid would have a perfect platform of storytelling.

        Like, between our inside-talks with Caleina, the first thing that came to our mind was a plot like this:

        Shadowlands ends and we return to Azeroth, but what we come back to is a planet surface almost completely invaded with the Old Gods and their minions.

        Turns out, when we thought we have defeated N’Zoth, it was all just another veil and a vision he has fooled us with, meanwhile as he has shown us before, he realized his actual vision and then raised back his brothers, C’Thun and Yogg-Saron and filled the position of Y’Shaarj with Xal’atath:
        Black Empire has returned!

        Seeing this, a messenger from our faction welcomes us in secret, shrouds us from Void’s servants and tells us the few survivors have gathered at the Dragon Isles with the help of reformed Dragon Aspects.

        They have found out Wrathion was working for the Void and N’Zoth all the time, saved N’Zoth’s essence at the Dagger of Xal’atath and when they find that out they casted him out and Ebonhorn took his place and became the new Black Aspect, but it was too late, he let loose N’Zoth back on the unsuspecting and now defenseless world, then as planned before N’Zoth and Xal’atath quickly conquered the surface and even brought back their brothers.

        Meanwhile, we learn that right before the Black Empire invasion Turalyon has became such a ruthless leader and was preparing on invading Orgrimmar to eradicate Horde from the surface of Azeroth. Ironically, Allieria with the help of her Void connection prevents that, but in that confrontation this has weakened Alliance from inside and when the invasion arrived Alleria totally lost control to the Void and opened the way for invasion, became the reason of Stormwind’s and Azeroth’s downfall, killing Turalyon and Genn in the attack personally then got killed by Velen during their escape.
        (This may be the introduction scenario or pre-expansion event)

        Finally, when we arrive Dragon Isles, we say that we expect an imminent attack on Azeroth from Shadowlands and Zovaal to take our World’s Soul and we warn the survivors about that upcoming huge threat.

        But, in shock we learn this was the plan all along, Old Gods were in league with Zovaal and he is trying to take over Azeroth’s essence to use it to open the gates of Void to free the First Ones, also known as The Void Lords, lead by Elune, the Dark Goddess who was the mastermind behind all of this from beyond the Void!


        I mean, vaguely something like this would be quite nice and it would even connect all the dots too. We can throw in some Sylvanas and related other conclusions too, she can help us escape from Shadowlands, tell us Zovaal’s plan at the end of 9.3 now having her soul, she can reunite with Blood Elves and maybe become their new leader, or maybe take Allieria’s place as the new High Elven Queen and we can even get rid of Void Elf nonsense meanwhile using that etc. etc. It’s all open after that point ^^

        So… What do you think, oh great Lore Magus?
        Liked this small glimpse on our future articles?
        (Of which all will be written down by Caleina, some day, hopefully ;>)

        Liked by 1 person

  7. Yeah,I have much more to write down. For example, those voice lines of that Faceless One back in Stormsong Valley or they Eye of the Corruptor that I have forgotten.

    We have so much loose tie to connect into each other. Fatescribe’s madness, Il’gynoth’s warnings, N’zoth, Xal’atath,Eye of The Corruptor, the clear connections between Death and The Void that “big content creators” still ignore…

    But I’m glad we are “so close to the truth” despite being “so far”. I have much to write in the upcoming days.

    And those links you found Lore Magus, are solid proofs that Legion, Battle For Azeroth and Shadowlands are actually written as a single, complete arc. Leading the way into 10.0 with tied references and connections. Despite how most of the community thinks, like Blizzard writes the story patch by patch or something.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Shadowlands plotline started when warcraft started and this was the pivotal expansion of the first part of cosmic narrative, let us say, main timeline for now!

      “At the hour of her third Death, she ushers in our coming!”

      “The Blind Queen wields a scepter of bone and from the deep she calls forth doom”

      “The seventh covets what the six hold fast. The fulcrum wavers. All will be undone.”

      and most importantly,

      “The time has come to shatter this clockwork universe forever! Let us no longer be slaves of the hourglass! I warn you: those who do not embrace the greater path shall become victims of its passing!”

      You know not what you have done. Aman’Thul… What I… have… seen…

      Be the first to witness Reality’s end!

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Oh yes! That line back in TBC, “The clockwork universe” catched my attention during the recent TBC Timewalking.

        So, are you saying the idea of Shadowlands was actually in the foundations of Warcraft lore? Since when? I don’t think so it was during, lets say Orcs&Humans. But I’m sure during WOTLK, the first breadcrumbs for Shadowlands have been put in the game. For example, Lady Deathwhisper’s words back in ICC:

        “You have seen through the fog hangs over this world like a shroud! And grasp where true power lies!”

        And as I said before, we are %100 sure that Legion-BFA-Shadowlands are actually a single arc, so the story is consistent.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. Let me start of with the numerous plot threads that are out there starting with VOID:

    1. VOID – Since N’zoth was the last of the 4 Old Gods on Azeroth, the thread starts with him. While you see one path, may I remind you that Void sees many paths. Just to put out an example and that which you are not seeing, what If Blade of the Black empire when used on someone, the soul of the person using it is pulled into the sword and the person who is stabbed has their soul/ essence transfers into the stabber. Remember Xal says she was betrayed, perhaps, her betrayal was that when she stabbed a certain Old God entity, she was pulled into the blade and the entity she stabbed transferred into her actual body. I am just putting this out here so you understand that the ending of Ny’lotha is not what it seems. There is a PLOT TWIST (N’zoth says nothing is as it seems in the Darkmoon fair Old Gods Hearthstone exp, released after Patch 8.3 ending). I am sure you like many out there do not believe that there was one outcome with N’zoth ending. To believe so is to forget all the LESSONS he was teaching us.
    a) Is Wrathion that we saw after N’zoth ending actually Wrathion himself or it is someone else? (What was he doing when the pawn aka the Diamond king was shouting that we are the child of Azeroth?)/ Like your’s and many others observed, is Wrathion corrupt and working for N’zoth or was all of 8.3 a dream and we are all still sleeping inside Ny’alotha?
    b) What was the Ethereal doing collecting the mysterious prisms from the inside the visions?
    c) What happened to Ny’alotha? What was the actual outcome of FORGE OF FATES? Was Ny’alotha re-originated to the actual timeline when it was on Azeroth sending N’zoth back in time?
    d) What was with the Ethereal/ Tmog/ SW fight arena murder mystery? Why were we being studied?
    e) What is with the mysterious Darkmoon isle, seemingly connected to Old Gods and it mysteriously appears only once a month (there is an actual lore that is connected to this and it may be revealed in when the Old Gods return in one way or another!)
    f) What was the Battle of K’tanth about? What font of power lies below the unexplored large island of the Broken shores?
    g) Why did Old Gods favour life on Azeroth instead of summoning the void lords during their Golden age of the Black empire? We see that when N’zoth was released, he showed us all those visions where his followers were opening void portals for the void to enter. If this was the case, why was this not done eons back?
    h) Why did the Void send more than one Old God onto Azeroth while the worlds which we know about had invasion of only 1 Old God?
    i) What is the connection with Void and Death? (You guys are quite close but still not there)
    j) Why did Void attack different realms of Shadowlands eons back?
    k) Why did Murozond embrace the Old Gods/ Void and called their True Hour of Twilight, a future where all of cosmos is consumed by the Void as a blessing we may not comprehend?
    l) Why were the infinite dragonflight trying to stop Arthas in the Caverns instance?
    m) Who is the Old God behind the Drust and how are they connected to the nightmare?
    n) By the end of BFA, we are told that the corruption level on the Planetary level was nominal despite the fact that we get to hear that Yogg was seemingly active one way or the other in Ulduar.
    o) What is the mysterious connection between Ysera and N’zoth? the connection between Life and the Void, GIFT OF FLESH???
    p) Where did Azshara/ Xal leave to?
    q) Anduin/ Void meta-story plot
    r) Void-Light cosmic conflict
    l) What is the Void’s connection to Maldraxus besides the connection of Nerubians?
    m) What is the Deal with OBLIVION?

    2) DEATH- Who is the true Death? Is Zovaal truly the final boss or there is someone else who is in control of Zovaal and may end up as the Final boss?
    a) What is the deal with the Eternal ones and the First ones?
    b) Who are the Brokers actually?
    c) What is going on Sire Denathrius and the Nathrezim?
    d) What are the Origins of the Devourers actually?
    e) Who is Muezhala actually?
    f) Is Elune truly not a deity of Life? Perhaps she belongs to Shadowlands and WQ is a proxy. Ardenweald is not “Winter”, the vision of Nightfae is called MOONSIGHT (same like the origin story of the Night elves!) and they call the skies of Ardenweald a moonless night), what is with the crescent over the Arbiter in the Brokers’ grimoire? Remember WQ came to Ardenweald and she was not there at the creation of Ardenweald landmass!
    g) why does the relics of the First ones activate to the players (other than for the game play reason)
    h) What is with Twisting nether and the Shadowlands?
    i) What is the plot of Uuna? Why did her soul bypass the Kyrians and the Arbiters when she got released from Urzul in the Twisting nether and ended up inside a “Shadow/Void” realm? The same goes for the wolf pet’s soul from the Shadowmoon valley, the soul was within the realm of a Void God based on Mirrors!
    j) What is with the Threads of Fate and the Rings in the DEATH realm?
    k) What is Zovaal trying to get from Zereth mortis?
    l) What is the deal of DEATH with LIGHT as much as its deal with SHADOW/ VOID?
    m) Is Thrall’s mom really trustworthy?

    3) LIFE – What is the PANTHEON OF LIFE? Is Elune Life/ Light/ Death/ Shadow/ Disorder/ Order/ Reality based cosmic being?

    a) What is the Dream?
    b) Why does Elune always show as an eclipsed form (Darkmoon/ Shadowmoon)?
    c) What is with the Blue Child aka the Little moon of Azeroth and connection to Elune?
    d) Why is that only nature souls that end up in Ardenweald are the only souls part of the great cycle of balance between Life and Death? Other mortal souls are not reborn but end up in a realm of judgement by the Arbiter for eternity!
    e) How is LIGHT/ VOID connected to LIFE?

    4) ORDER – Are the titans true about everything we have been told?
    a) What is the Titan Homeworld about?
    b) Why did Sargeras want to resurrect the Pantheon of Order as the Dark Pantheon (of DEATH!)?
    c) What did Amanthul do in the maintime line that Murozond was horrified to see and went on to embrace the Void?
    d) What is their connection to Death?
    e) Why are the Brokers not trusting the Titans but consider themselves to be the actual force of Order?
    f) What is happening with the Arcane overloading in the alternate Draenor? (the unexplored zone!)
    g) What more did the Titans lie about or encouraged the Dragon aspects to lie about GALAKROND?
    h) What is the deal with Odyn?
    i) What is the deal with Tyr and Galakrond and Death?
    j) What happens when the Red star vanishes the sky?
    k) What is the deal with the gigantic sword in Silithus?
    l) How are the Pillars of creation connected to Shadowlands?
    m) Who are the constellars actually?

    5) LIGHT – Are Naaru truly serving the actual Pantheon of Light or they are following someone else, forgetting their true path?
    a) Is Light benevolent as it says?
    b) Who has the Light made a deal with aka who is the enemy of all?
    c) What is with Light and Zovaal?
    e) What happened to the SUN on the cosmic scale? Many cultures worship a sun God but nothing about mentioned within the Light
    f) Why did Light attack Revendreth in connection to Nathrezim yet have one of them converted to Light after that in the modern times?
    g) If alternate Draenor aka the alternate timeline is merging, what happens to the maintime line? (as noted in the Timeway corruption in the Chronicles)
    h) How is Light connected to Death/ esp. Bastion?

    6) CHAOS – Why were the Demons imprisoned within the many prison worlds in the First place? What happened to the Pantheon of Disorder (Pantheon and Disorder do not go together!)

    a) who are the Shivvara?
    b) Are the Burning Legion done?
    c) What changed in Elisande’s timeline where she saw that all possible timelines show Legion winning but the opposite happened!
    d) What happened to the Souls of the titans that were killed by Sargeras?

    Other Plotlines:
    a) Jaina/ Uther/ Thrall/ Baine/ Sylvanas/ Anduin/ Bolvar/ Calia/ Taelia – what is going to happen to them?
    b) Turalyon/ Alleria plotline
    c) Talaanji/ Bwonsmadi/ Horde council
    d) Fracture inside Alliance
    e) Azeroth’s future
    f) Dragon flights’ future
    g) What are the deal about the other Titan complexes such as Uldorus?
    h) What is happening with the Elemental plane now that Death is coming for the world soul? Many elementals felt agitated with the corruption of Azeroth’s blood!
    i) Why is Azeroth called the PRIZE?
    j) Faction conflict moving forward
    k) Dragon isles
    l) Undead and Scourge on Azeroth
    m) Azeroth’s warning about Patch 9.3

    I have only specified the significant plotlines here and if you can figure out, most of them fall under the same plot thread that we are moving ahead to see by the end of Shadowlands. As i said, all plot threads will converge.

    There is a reason for all things that you have seen, heard so far in the story. Do not stress yourself to reply to all of these plot threads but think of them, all paths converge, you only need to connect the dots, so when the threads of fate are torn asunder, so will be the threads of the time stream. About Timewalking, there is more on that if can figure out why/ how TIME & FATE are interconnected and how that is going to change Warcraft forever!

    You are eager to see the Void Lords, there are these things about that plotline may not be happening any soon, although we may get to hear about them soon or all things point towards them!

    1. Mortal moralities do not apply to cosmic forces, thinking Void is evil and Light is good may not be the best idea as these moralities do not apply to them. Both Light and Void are more similar than you may been led to believe. For once, Void may end up saving us!

    2. Anduin/ Void Meta-arc

    3. Void Lord plotlines is pending yet another Old God beside N’zoth inside Thros and the Drust plotline is set to continue

    4. Power of Nightwarrior – first known instance was to defeat an Old God, this power player and the souls of the Nightelves are there for a reason and we may soon see what Purpose they are going to play!

    5. VOID/ OBLIVION could be the actual end game of warcraft cosmos like every other fantasy fictions and us moving into either the Void or it manifesting on Azeroth – neither is a good thing for the players and the plot thread in the immediate aftermath of Shadowlands. We have never faced a full powered cosmic entity except N’zoth, who only wanted us to defeat him exactly how he wanted! Argus was half resurrected, not full power and he was “dominated” by Sargeras! This is the first time we will face a cosmic entity, esp, of Death whose power level could exceed even with the combined might of all eternal ones put together. Eons back they had a chance because Zovaal never got access to Zereth mortis, he was banished to the maw before that but now, he is a greater threat that players can’t face with any amount soul binds. I also do not think Blizzard will pull another abysmal failure of a cinematic like N’zoth ending. Blizzard did say that at some point we have to loose to the expansion ending final boss and that there was no point in telling a story where we always keep winning.

    Most important of all, are we the Heroes of this story as we are led to believe? “It depends on who tells the story” (Brokers’ discussion about the players in Oribos).

    Liked by 2 people

    1. First of all, I must thank you for the effort you have put in to write all these.

      Second, as you said, I will not stress myself at all to even attempt to reply all of these plot possibilities and questions (yet, I must notify that we have the answers about most of them, like:

      – “What happened to the Souls of the titans that were killed by Sargeras?”
      They were saved by Ra-den, later recaptured by Sargeras and tortured by the Coven of Shivarra to turn them into the Dark Pantheon.
      – “Who ORDERED the PRIME NAARU?”
      Khadgar and books at Karazhan says Elune.
      (etc. etc. we can do it for all, but that was not the point, obviously ;b)

      The point is, you’re saying:
      “What is the connection with Void and Death? (You guys are quite close but still not there)”

      So, elaborate, what is your guess about this?
      Or should I say “hint”? ;b

      Because if you’re talking like someone from the inside then you have the duty to say “how close” we are, or share with us how much you know, base it on a proof to say something like that, so we would know how far or close we are, right? ;>

      Also, after saying all these, you also said:
      “I also do not think Blizzard will pull another abysmal failure of a cinematic like N’zoth ending. Blizzard did say that at some point we have to loose to the expansion ending final boss and that there was no point in telling a story where we always keep winning.”
      Like any other gruntled, disappointed ordinary WoW player who was not happy about Ny’alotha ending.

      Here, if you were partially quoting Danuser’s words directly, saying:
      “I am just putting this out here so you understand that the ending of Ny’lotha is not what it seems. There is a PLOT TWIST (N’zoth says nothing is as it seems in the Darkmoon fair Old Gods Hearthstone exp, released after Patch 8.3 ending). I am sure you like many out there do not believe that there was one outcome with N’zoth ending. To believe so is to forget all the LESSONS he was teaching us.”

      He said:

      While the Light can only conceive of one true path, the Void sees endless possibilities. Strategically, the Old Gods always have plans within plans, waiting for one door to close so another can open. To believe there can only be a single outcome to the struggle against N’Zoth would be to ignore the lessons he was trying to teach us.

      “All eyes shall be opened.” Do not allow yours to be closed.

      So, to conclude, let’s either not talk like we know stuff first hand before it is official and canon, because we are very careful to base our theories on canon facts, so we naturally expect the same from our fellow lore loving readers. Otherwise we would all be lost in our head-canons and move away from the actual plot, where it’s sometimes solved simpler, or even with something we all never thought of.

      Happens ^^

      Again, I’m not saying this with any offense, but let’s just put our feet on the ground when we’re roaming around the possibilities. Just in case ;>

      Liked by 3 people

    2. So, yes as you said there is no point trying to answer this entire megathread. Better to this here for now to come back and answer more questions later. b Let’s choose just some among them:

      ” Void Lord plotlines is pending yet another Old God beside N’zoth inside Thros and the Drust plotline is set to continue.” and ” Who is the Old God behind the Drust and how are they connected to the nightmare?”

      So, if that Old God you mentioned was one of the Old Gods we already knew, it must be Yogg-Saron. The true creator of the nightmare and in my opinion, the Old God who was interested in the realm of Death the most. To be honest, I will be disappointed should Shadowlands ends up without mentioning
      neither Yogg-Saron nor Arakkoa. So, in my opinion Yogg was the one behind the Drust. So, should we consider the possibiility that the Drust was banished from Shadowlands before? May be with Zovaal and The First Ones? They were pretty much using Anima constructs during BFA.

      “what If Blade of the Black empire when used on someone, the soul of the person using it is pulled into the sword and the person who is stabbed has their soul/ essence transfers into the stabber. ”

      So, we actually theorized this as well with Aernath. In our opinion, Wrathion is not to be trusted at all and he is most likely an avatar for N’zoth. So, its possible that Wrathion took N’zoth’s actual essence into the blade so he survived. And 10.0, we would see him and Dragon Isles as well?

      “What was the Battle of K’tanth about? What font of power lies below the unexplored large island of the Broken shores?”

      Can’t make an educated guess about this as we know almost nothing about the ancient times of Azeroth. But I can bring some whispers of Xal to add this:

      “I don’t believe these lands have seen such carnage since the Battle for K’tanth. Such a long time ago…”

      “That fel edifice towering over this land pales in comparison to the grandeur of what stood here long ago.”

      “This was always a place of power. Aegwynn was drawn here, and before her, the elves, and before them, the trolls. And before them…”

      So, the last two whispers were about Tomb of Sargeras which was actually a Temple Of Elune before being corrupted. But Xal mentions it was actually much, much more for the Old God followers? For the A’qir and such creatures, that tower was a “sacred” place to visit? Another clear connection with Elune and The Void.

      ” Why did Light attack Revendreth in connection to Nathrezim yet have one of them converted to Light after that in the modern times?”

      In our opinion that was a move to fool us, made us believe Denathrius and Naaru were enemies. But as we have theorized, The Naaru is just husks for Void Lords/First Ones to pass into our reality by becoming Void Gods. But may be, The Light is STILL an enemy for the imprisoned First Ones so Denathrius and Zovaal. But cunning Elune put Naaru into the machine of Light and has been ordering them since.

      But the real question is: How can the Light truly be an ENEMY for The Void as if has to return to The Void in time? Xal’atath mentions:

      “I know the naaru consider us horrors to be resisted. We do not share this view. They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path. They will return to their masters… in time.”

      Actually this whisper was one of the details pushed our theory about The First Ones.

      ” Why is Azeroth called the PRIZE?”

      So, according to our First Ones theory it holds the key or rather the actual power to open a portal into The Void. The key, or the knowledge itself has been hidden in Zereth Mortis, The Sepulcher. So consider Azeroth as a power supply for the ritual Zovaal planned? Seems it has an incredible power potential.

      I won’t push this theory any further at this point. But I won’t be surprised if Azeroth turned out not to be a Titan at all but something else, an entity we have never faced before? May be it was the “lock” of The Veil that surrounds us? A power battery for it?

      ” Faction conflict moving forward”

      Personally I don’t liket the idea of Faction War anymore, but Blizzard somehow preserve the identity of the Warcraft world so the factions would exist in the future. But ı rather have a none faction system.

      “What is the connection with Void and Death?”

      I have lots of articles about that in this blog. But for me the most obvious connection (yet people still ignores it) was the Shadowmoon Clan in alternate Draenor. A clan which utilized harnessing the powers of Death and Void at the same time. And during the Maw introduction scenario, Thrall mentioned that the power of the Maw reminded him THE SHADOWMOON CLAN back in Draenor. So, guess I can say I was right. ^^

      Liked by 3 people

  9. Hey guys, sorry about these messages that are vague. I agree that it can be simply annoying sometimes but as I said, when you connect the various dots, webs of plots, plans within plans, the revelation is a worthwhile experience and in the end, you will be wholeheartedly surprised/ shocked/ amused/ etc etc when seeing one of the many Truths or all of the infinite truths!

    I do not want to implicate myself, either being an insider or not. I am also on two big content creators’ Discord channel, discussing the lore. Trust me when I say this, there are many people out there who have dissected much more than you guys into these whispers and yet feel frustrated because of the mystery fatigue. It is that maddness of the unknown that is Lovecraftian. Frustration is an universal expression, it can be both from the inside and outside of Blizzard.

    You guys, like the many lore nerds that I come across, including myself, we are part of a greater Hivemind (Hivemind was awarded to players to honour the collective effort that thousands of players across the world who sit together solving the puzzles and the secrets within. We are the many facets of the many Truths that Void sees as potential possiblities. We see all possibilities and see all of them as true. However, the Lore narrative, the one we end up seeing in from the Narrative Headteam, who sees one path to be true and that is what we see in game.

    As for all the plot questions, some of which you answered – yes, we have some answers given in game or otherwise on certain things but we should remember, everything is perspective. It could be that some of them are misinterpreted sometimes.

    Anyway, you are doing a better job in what you are doing, probably not many from the community have noticed you but your theories are a good part for a healthy speculation, which is a good part of the wow lore community. Blizzard has succeeded in delivering the lore in varying depths,

    1. The in game/ outside books on various historical events
    2. Flavour texts of items
    3. Raid/ Dungeon whispers, quotes
    4. Quest texts
    5. Awesome cinematics
    6. Cool curscenes
    7. Dungeon/ Raid Journals
    8. World Quests
    9. Naming of the places inside each Zone
    10. Blizzcon and other narrative design team interviews
    11. Art works like the cosmic charts
    12. External inspiration for wow lore, like Lovecraft’s works, Marvel Multiverse!
    13. In game gossips between NPCs, etc etc

    Most of the lore community observe deep and dissect all of the above but there is yet another important area that the lore is conveyed, one of the least looked into by many – the dungeon/ raid mechanics and boss abilities. These convey a whole story. Sometimes these end up as the final pieces of connecting two puzzles for a greater puzzle. For instance, many think N’zoth’s fight phases itself foreshadowed what was to come within Shadowlands. Then there are also the store items released, very rarely they also end up in the greater narrative of the lore.

    In the Grimoire of Shadowlands book, in the new perspective Cosmic chart, one of the cosmic forces show a shot from one of the boss fights from previous expansions. There could be more to it than what meets the eye. Just saying! Arbiter in the art is based on Goddess Hecate if you have observed the two distinct flames and the key she was at the convergence of Shadowlands, with a crescent above her! Everything out there has a meaning to it and a story behind it!

    For instance the Shadowlands leaks had some truths to it when it was released on 4chan. Darkfront does exist and is connected to Thros. Ny’alotha was in transit, it ended up being the only raid so war in wow that has a weekly raid entrance, changing between two assault zones. The Greek names involved within the leaked map. This also lines with what was said, Ardenweald’s design of the spiralling cosmic trees and the entire zone was originally designed for Thros! Narrative designs change, sometimes due to marketing reasons, sometimes to act upon the pulse of the community (as we have seen with the zappy boi or Bwonsamdi), sometimes due to internal issues.

    You are right about Shadow and Death, some of it as it is very much obvious but there are some unknown elements, which your basis is on speculation, like everyone does in the lore community. What I am trying to say is, expand your research, maybe join these other big content discords if you are interested to see the many possible truths that thousands of players out there see it. Some may align with yours, some may converge with yours, some you may want to converge with theirs, some may be completely different from yours! There is a lot of things out there and you would be surprised how you missed something that was right in front of you all this time. Also, be consciously aware, that your path could be wrong as could be mind, as could all of the lore community be, maybe the Narrative is not any of us expected, even if I was from inside or outside (it doesn’t really matter and that is my point!)

    Do not be like the Light, be like the Void and join the chrous! I am definitely not an Old God, whom you summoned and who is whispering maddening truths! 😅🤫😉

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Hey! There is no way ı can answer part by part of such a detailed comment, so I rather give a general answer:

      Personally yes, I like the concept of Void and Lovecraft since the early days I started playing WoW, the days of WOD. IMO, The Void and its mystery was a hook point for me. We like delving into the whispers,looking back into old sources as you referred here, old Warcraft novels for example. Because actually most of them (not all of them yes, but most of them) are still canon and worth taking a look at into.

      For the leaks, I’m not sure. Yes, sometimes the context in those “leaks” partially ends up inside the expansion itself. For example, there were leaks before BFA announced, about we would see Kul’tiras and Zandalari finally in a ocea-themed expansion. Personally, I would like to see if N’yalotha would truly ended up in Shadowlands, because as I’ve said numerous times before, the Old Gods and especially Yogg-Saron are related with Death, and feeding souls. The “oblivion” you mentioned actually.

      For joining into content creators’ discord well… Here is what I observed in social media: If people are following a content creator, they would always pick their side on his side, not your side. Don’t take this offensive btw, and I’m not implying anyboyd. But imagine I share my theory with a “big content creator”, it mostly ends up in his favor and people would “support” his view and theories.

      To be honest, I would like to discuss the lore with anyone in the community. And I would welcome an opportunity to discuss lore and diving into tinfoil madness with big content creators, why would I not?

      We trust our theory a lot, I cannot lie about it. There may be some plot holes in it that is true, but its mostly fitting in the current lore setup. But yeah, so many content creators speculating so many theories and there is still the possibility for Blizzard comes up with a completely different story. Because after all, what we do here, as “lorefreaks” just following the breadcrumbs Blizzard put inside the lore, but there is always the chance for Blizzard come up with a completely different lore direction.

      But, to be honest me and my friends are actually PRETTY GOOD when it comes to guess what would heppen in the upcoming patches. Here is a short compilation of our theories/speculations ended up true. The video is in Turkish so its completely up to you watching it or not, but it would give a general idea:

      For example, we guessed the Night Elves being depriving Shadowlands out of Anima, back in 2020:

      Also, I actually called the general theme and even the raid of patch 9.1 on reddit, just a day before it has been “leaked”. But community mocked me for being a tinifoil, but who laughed the end? .p:

      And none of the big content creators foresaw 9.1 like us. Because naturally, all of us have been expecting Torghast being a raid as the ending of Shadowlans. But the thing is, since Warlords of Draenor Blizzard never goes with a linear, simple narrative. For example,I guess we would end up with a “Azeroth World Soul raid” with 9.3, but again it can be something completely different.

      I have theorized here that we would actually ending up fighting with The Primus, the true mastermind of Shadowlands, beside Sire Denathrius:


      Liked by 2 people

      1. Let me start from the end. On Primus, you are on point and there is a good chance you and one other big content creator that I am aware of may actually end up right! Let us not jump into such a speculative content for now because there is some chance that the narrative would completely be something that would surprise/ shock you.

        On Torghast raid and Patch 9.3 final raid involving Azeroth’s soul, I may have to tell you that you were/ are not alone on that, as you believe. In fact, some people I know of have a very good guess of the final raid zone, even what it will be called including the final area/ last room of the raid. So, that is a good speculation you got there.

        While you have had some good speculation in the past and have it even now, you are still missing a big plot that may end up surprising you. This is connected with certain narrative arcs that was set some expansions back.

        As for my suggestion on joining others, I understand you have had some bad experiences or were let down by the community. I wouldn’t want you to stress on that. I suggested that only to emphasize that among all the content creators I have seen, you were by far closest to the truth yet so far from realizing it. Others are not even close to the truth, however, they are pretty much on point on some other things you have had actually missed. It is your choice and I completely respect that.

        No, I wouldn’t be offended, why would I be? I am merely stating my observation. I observe everyone and I would not interfere in anyone’s speculation. I just give a nudge sometimes to people who are closer to the speculation. With certain big content lore creator moved onto other games and not involved with wow lore anymore, you have a very good chance to take that position and called as one of the Trinity of wow lore speculators. I hope you know who the other 2 big shots are and the one who left warcraft speculation.

        Having said, I am afraid I can’t follow the video you shared because I am English. I am sure you would have speculated things on point, on things so far. That said, I have had pointed out some things in my last post. Hope you have had thought about them and have found out the crucial piece of plot narrative you have missed.

        Again, think about the following whisper and how it fits in this whole plot.

        “Before the last SHADOW falls, the father of sleep will savour his feast”.

        This whisper could be connected to 2 or even 3 possible other whispers.

        My point is, pretty much everyone out in the lore community seems to have missed a key plot in the entire narrative. It is only the most obvious that is being speculated now because most people have missed to see the hidden narrative.


  10. Excuse all the typos, that was all done on my mobile! I am seeing a lot but hope you have got the sense of the words that I was trying to convey.

    Aernath, regarding Void and Death, without going into speculation, that for the time being are non-canonical, here are the different threads that we are available to us canonically:

    1. Nathrezim conspiracy: Void was a scapegoat, a front where other cosmic force can wage war due to their extensive reach while Death works on the background to remake the cosmic setup. Nathrezim are themselves aware that Void would be aware of Death’s coming, which lines with the Void whispers to Alleria in the comic.

    2. Oblivion – This is the distinct word that differentiates the cosmic force of Death and Void! Cosmic force of Death, which we see is about Eternity of Torture (which Zovaal is trying to bring) while Oblivion or TRUE DEATH is Non-existence. We all know that Oblivion elemental belongs to the Void, as we have seen inside Visions of N’zoth. We also see FACE OF OBLIVION, a zone in the maw on the way to Perdition Hold. There are also several instances of trashes from within Torghast or Revendreth referring to the Oblivion being kinder or it offers solace unlike the Fate that Zovaal intends to bring! Remember the whisper, “OBLIVION OFFERS SOLACE”.

    3. The Old Gods/ Void lie outside the pattern of LIFE & DEATH, untouched by TIME, unmoved by FATE! (This is exactly the Lovecraftian inspiration that they are based on).

    Based on the above, one must ask what exactly is the connection between Shadow/ Void & Death with respect to Shadowlands. As you guys observed like the Rift being behind the veil that separates the Shadowlands that we see, the actual Shadowlands maybe, as it was shown in the alternate timeline, under the purview of the Shadow or Void, a limbo realm for the mortal souls or the faint echoes that remain before being finally consumed into the Oblivion of the void! However, Death realm, the Shadowlands that we see is ORDERED with a Pantheon, machinations, etc! There is a gap between as what was Shadowlands before the ORDERING happened to the time when Zovaal rebelled for whatever reason and to what we are seeing now.

    Have you ever wondered why the Dream is even present within the Shadowlands? Dream and its corrupted form of Nightmare is present on both sides, inside reality, even inside Shadowlands. Ever wondered why this is the reason? Perhaps one must understand that the entire cosmic chart which we have seen so far now, both versions are not the actual representation of these cosmic forces and their existence! There may be more to it than it meets the eye.

    Maybe, The FLESH is the which ties in Void to both Life & Death and Old Gods are Void made Flesh! They created the Aqir, the Mantids, the Zoaratoids, etc. The Hydra were considered to be the pets of the Old Gods. These things may contradict to what Void is all about and for a lot in the community, it may appear that Blizzard is retconning the Old lore, changing things, etc. When the community truly understands what the mote of cosmic truth really meant, (The Great Truth, The Terrible Truth) at the dawn of all things, which started to go into the fractal madness, layers within layers, each overlapping each creating new things, then one may finally understand the Void, which even the Titans have failed to understand (According to Xal). Basically, all that you know about Void is questionable canonically according to an entity from the Void!

    Coming back to connection between Zovaal and the Void, it is the same connection that Blizzard hasn’t explained all the way back in WOTLK. The connection between Yogg saron and Arthas the Lich King and as Blizzard had hinted, this may well be tied to GIFT/CURSE OF FLESH. There are many quotes from Il’gynoth hinting at FLESH, PAIN, DEATH! We just need to connect the pieces of the Puzzle which eventually will make sense.

    What was stolen will be the titans’ unmaking, claims Sargeras and further hints that Azeroth is his gift to claim. N’zoth then went on to say Azeroth is the true Prize. Now we have Zovaal in Shadowlands and his affiliates claiming that Azeroth is the Final Prize and that Zovaal will claim it. He further says that he will re-claim what was stolen from him and what was promised to him! (Who made such a Promise! I will let you guys explore that)

    From the above, on one side, it appears that something inside Azeroth appears to have been stolen from somewhere and that will be the unmaking of the titans. On the side, someone is claiming that something that was promised to him was stolen and he intends to claim it.

    If Zovaal is working for the Void lords, there was no necessity for him to have all the Old Gods across reality be killed or wanted the 4 Old Gods gone from Azeroth. There was no necessity for N’zoth or any of the Old Gods to whisper all those things to us. While Void has their own nefarious intentions, they are also not in line with Zovaal’s version of Death! An eternity of Torture or Oblivion, make your Choice! Murozond did, maybe we will too!

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Further to my observation above,

    We have now come to see the passing of the whisper:

    5 keys to open our way!

    There are 5 Torches that are still there to light the path. We are the torch bringers and we will be exactly playing into the whisper.

    Then, there is this that is different from the above, which we have yet to see.

    “Five lanterns, now darkened. The flame they seek will light the masters’ way.”

    There is something that you need to note about the FLAME(S)!

    “Hidden from daylight, a sleeping flame rests atop the sixth tree.”

    Since you didn’t notice the inspiration for Arbiter in new the cosmic chart was Goddess Hecate holding twin flames on either side amongst the other things which I had mentioned earlier, look again and you will see that the two flames/ torches are distinctively different. That is something you may want to look into!

    Also, should Sylvanas die by the end of Shadowlands, it will be her third death (if you do not count Arthas stabbing her, he did say he denied her the death and raised her as an undead, thus 3 deaths from when she became an undead counts, twice she was killed before and resurrected) and that will usher in their coming. However according to Azeroth’s warning & the Amalgamation of Nightmare (comprising various whispers of all previous expansion raid ending bosses, ending with the final warning of first Old God encounter C’thun), it was not the Burning Legion (Patch 7.3) or Old Gods (Patch 8.3), there is a greater darkness that is about to come (Patch 9.3).

    “We share a Master”, “Welcome Death” “He is your True creator) (Il’gynoth’s whispers). This is more about the FLESH and this is a connection you may want to look into deep.

    If N’zoth saw eons ago about the veil being shattered with the breaking of the Helm, why did he not just wait for the Void Lords to manifest and save him, instead he sustained an entire race from going into the Shadowlands, he turned Azshara and her people into Nagas, which prevented them from dying back then and their souls going into the Shadowlands. They survived the depths of the deep sea.

    The Old Gods and Void are indeed the TRUE DEATH as in OBLIVION but not the DEATH that Zovaal is speaking about! When Zovaal turns the key, there is going to be an inevitable consequence that may well be tied with the Void Lords, maybe Zovaal himself hasn’t realised what True Void Lord is capable off or maybe he exactly knows and that is why Anduin was selected by Zovaal! Just an overuse of Arcane magic can create a dimensional tear in reality and cause a Void Lord to enter like what happened with Dimensious, the All Devouring. It doesn’t require Zereth Mortis or Zovaal to turn a key or Azeroth’s power to let them in. In the N’zoth assaults, we see the Old God acolytes using varying rituals to summon a void lord, it is pretty easy to summon them if you compared to using 5 Sigils of Eternal ones! (Eg. Void Flame rituals, etc)

    Zovaal opening the way and Zereth Mortis – it is more likely connected to Azeroth’s world soul and why Azeroth was claimed to be a Prison (of FATE!). It is all connected with the Ultimate FATE of all of reality. Read N’zoth’s raid encounter journal again. There is a reason why the ending of the Raid encounter journal is worded the way it is worded.

    As Steve Danuser said, there is some truth to what N’zoth said when he said that he alone can save us from what is to come.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Since you mentioned H.P.Lovercraft and you are so interested in his works, and I trust you and your friend have read all of his works, perhaps the following portion from his magnum opus will guide you! There is reason why it is this portion that I have shared here.

    **Some day he would call, when the stars were ready, and the secret cult would always be waiting to liberate him.
    Meanwhile no more must be told. There was a secret which even torture could not extract. Mankind was not absolutely alone among the conscious things of earth, for shapes came out of the dark to visit the faithful few. But these were not the Great Old Ones. No man had ever seen the Old Ones. The carven idol was great Cthulhu, but none might say whether or not the others were precisely like him. No one could read the old writing now, but things were told by word of mouth. The chanted ritual was not the secret—that was never spoken aloud, only whispered. The chant meant only this: “In his house at R’lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.”
    Only two of the prisoners were found sane enough to be hanged, and the rest were committed to various institutions. All denied a part in the ritual murders, and averred that the killing had been done by Black Winged Ones which had come to them from their immemorial meeting-place in the haunted wood. But of those mysterious allies no coherent account could ever be gained. What the police did extract, came mainly from an immensely aged mestizo named Castro, who claimed to have sailed to strange ports and talked with undying leaders of the cult in the mountains of China.
    Old Castro remembered bits of hideous legend that paled the speculations of theosophists and made man and the world seem recent and transient indeed. There had been aeons when other Things ruled on the earth, and They had had great cities. Remains of Them, he said the deathless Chinamen had told him, were still to be found as Cyclopean stones on islands in the Pacific. They all died vast epochs of time before men came, but there were arts which could revive Them when the stars had come round again to the right positions in the cycle of eternity. They had, indeed, come themselves from the stars, and brought Their images with Them.
    These Great Old Ones, Castro continued, were not composed altogether of flesh and blood. They had shape—for did not this star-fashioned image prove it?—but that shape was not made of matter. When the stars were right, They could plunge from world to world through the sky; but when the stars were wrong, They could not live. But although They no longer lived, They would never really die. They all lay in stone houses in Their great city of R’lyeh, preserved by the spells of mighty Cthulhu for a glorious resurrection when the stars and the earth might once more be ready for Them. But at that time some force from outside must serve to liberate Their bodies. The spells that preserved Them intact likewise prevented Them from making an initial move, and They could only lie awake in the dark and think whilst uncounted millions of years rolled by. They knew all that was occurring in the universe, but Their mode of speech was transmitted thought. Even now They talked in Their tombs. When, after infinities of chaos, the first men came, the Great Old Ones spoke to the sensitive among them by moulding their dreams; for only thus could Their language reach the fleshly minds of mammals.
    Then, whispered Castro, those first men formed the cult around small idols which the Great Ones shewed them; idols brought in dim aeras from dark stars. That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth. The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom. Meanwhile the cult, by appropriate rites, must keep alive the memory of those ancient ways and shadow forth the prophecy of their return.
    In the elder time chosen men had talked with the entombed Old Ones in dreams, but then something had happened. The great stone city R’lyeh, with its monoliths and sepulchres, had sunk beneath the waves; and the deep waters, full of the one primal mystery through which not even thought can pass, had cut off the spectral intercourse. But memory never died, and high-priests said that the city would rise again when the stars were right. Then came out of the earth the black spirits of earth, mouldy and shadowy, and full of dim rumours picked up in caverns beneath forgotten sea-bottoms. But of them old Castro dared not speak much. He cut himself off hurriedly, and no amount of persuasion or subtlety could elicit more in this direction. The size of the Old Ones, too, he curiously declined to mention. Of the cult, he said that he thought the centre lay amid the pathless deserts of Arabia, where Irem, the City of Pillars, dreams hidden and untouched. It was not allied to the European witch-cult, and was virtually unknown beyond its members. No book had ever really hinted of it, though the deathless Chinamen said that there were double meanings in the Necronomicon of the mad Arab Abdul Alhazred which the initiated might read as they chose, especially the much-discussed couplet:

    “That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    And with strange aeons even death may die.”**

    – The Call of Cthulhu, By H. P. Lovecraft.

    The Void sees all truths and there is a great and terrible truth at the beginning of all things.

    “It grows hungrier… bolder. Alas, your eyes are closed!”


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: